tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post283141824183095486..comments2024-03-28T02:24:59.003-07:00Comments on Left Behind and Loving It: The Power of Reconciliation D. Mark Davishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12016377712982292924noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-12616532046415335232023-09-10T05:40:15.959-07:002023-09-10T05:40:15.959-07:00Another thought/link: Not a magic formula. Made m...Another thought/link: Not a magic formula. Made me think of Bonhoeffer's Ethics (changed gender language): The action of the responsible person is performed in the obligation which alone gives freedom and which gives entire freedom, the obligation to God and to our neighbor as they confront us in Jesus Christ. Good, as what is responsible, is performed in the ignorance of good and in the surrender to God of the deed which has become necessary and which is nevertheless, or for that very reason, free; for it is God who sees the heart, who weighs up the deed, and who directs the course of history. With this there is disclosed to us a deep secret of history in general. The person who acts in the freedom of their own most personal responsibility is precisely the person who sees their action finally committed to the guidance of God. The free venture knows itself as divine necessity.Bill Schlesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304598437917344802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-32271395726986666542023-09-10T05:37:20.436-07:002023-09-10T05:37:20.436-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bill Schlesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304598437917344802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-43803312087673658592023-09-10T05:36:42.716-07:002023-09-10T05:36:42.716-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bill Schlesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304598437917344802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-18173623367210611702017-09-10T07:07:30.345-07:002017-09-10T07:07:30.345-07:00Hi Wiliam. Indeed. I think that's exactly wher...Hi Wiliam. Indeed. I think that's exactly where next week's parable takes us. D. Mark Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12016377712982292924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-44217852243521653742017-09-10T07:05:54.505-07:002017-09-10T07:05:54.505-07:00Hi Forton,
Your alarm bells and my red flags are ...Hi Forton, <br />Your alarm bells and my red flags are both well-warranted, as history will attest. But, I also don't want to forget those moments in the life of the church where the community got together and even found some new direction when it was called upon to make a judgment/decision. In Acts 15, I would think it was a huge change of direction when the church was persuaded by Paul and Barnabas that Gentile believers could be part of Christ's church apart from the Mosaic law. Or, think about that first church meeting (perhaps a council of some sort) that decided it was good and not bad to let some persons with alcoholism meet in their basement. That kind of discernment seems easy enough in the rear view mirror, but think about how it required a whole new way of thinking about alcoholism and persons with alcoholism. <br />I want to keep that part of the dynamic of the ἐκκλησία in play. <br />The problem with gathering the community is that there may be someone there who looks at the worthless offender and says, "I was there once. It's not what you think it is." <br />I'm not convinced that this is where Matthew is going with this text, but it is where I'm going with it this week. D. Mark Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12016377712982292924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-36703213307626552272017-09-10T06:23:13.990-07:002017-09-10T06:23:13.990-07:00Another take on the 'earth/heaven' dynamic...Another take on the 'earth/heaven' dynamic; what you do in the micro impacts the macro; when you hold someone about a small and specific thing, it affects the entire context of the situation?Bill Schlesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304598437917344802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-28483693277561505382017-09-07T12:44:30.041-07:002017-09-07T12:44:30.041-07:00Hi Mark,
It's interesting how much binding and...Hi Mark,<br />It's interesting how much binding and loosing has been going on these past three weeks. (And interesting, too, that this Sunday the Lectionary links this Gospel with St Paul's advice to put on the armour of light, which puts me in mind of the wonderful hymn St Patrick's Breastplate - I bind unto myself today...)<br /><br />I share your scepticism about the binding/loosing being a magical formula to make God follow suit (presumptuous, much?); but I hope you will forgive me (77 or 490 times) for saying that I am also uneasy about the opposite interpretation, which - followed to its logical conclusion - ends up saying something like 'if two or three of you bind/agree something on earth, that's probably what God already binds/agrees/thinks in heaven.' <br /><br />As someone with a high ecclesiology, I want to affirm the theological truth in the idea that when the Church prayerfully and thoughtfully decides/says something, there's a good chance that it is of God and Spirit-led; but even the briefest of glances at the Church's record on gender / sexuality / race / disability / goodness-knows-what-else starts ringing some very loud alarm bells on that one.<br /><br />I wonder whether there is mileage in considering exactly what is being bound to (or loosed from) what. Is it a simple case of sinner in or sinner out, or is something more profound going on here? Maybe what the text is telling us is that *whatever* we choose to do with someone who offends (or offends us), that choice naturally binds us together with (for want of a better word) the sinner. If somebody punches me in the face, whatever I or they do afterwards (forgive, don't forgive, reconcile, don't be reconciled), whether we like it or not, that punch has created a link between us. And perhaps the text is suggesting that our bound-ness is not just temporal but eschatological - we are bound in heaven as on earth. His offence, and my response (which might very well also be an offence) have ripple effects not just for us but for our whole community, and for the whole of creation. Perhaps reconciliation is the work of loosing the toxic bonds in order to create bonds of love instead.<br /><br />As an aside, I believe that the Orthodox have a great prayer for those times when you just can't (or can't yet) forgive. They teach that if you really can't forgive from your own heart, you should pray for God to forgive; and if you really can't pray for God to forgive, you should pray "let him not be brought to judgement because of me." I think that's a neat expression of the ideas about bound-ness, sin, reconciliation, earth and heaven that I am trying (probably unsuccessfully) to express.Forton Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302192376029288256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-78828028785477355992017-09-06T06:20:27.634-07:002017-09-06T06:20:27.634-07:00Hi Rick,
Thanks for the notes. I think your sugge...Hi Rick, <br />Thanks for the notes. I think your suggestion that this may be about a covenantal matter like marriage is very suggestive. And you are certainly right about the legalese that is here. I always think we jump to moralistic interpretations of the word "sin" rather than a fuller meaning that I think is represented in the NT. <br />Also, I think you are absolutely right that v.19 is not about prayer. The clear antecedent in this text is that of witnesses agreeing on a legal matter between two persons. I referenced prayer because that is the way that this text is usually defined. I am trying to distance myself from that typical interpretation, but perhaps I focused too much on the 'magical' aspect of it to be clear that I think it is a leap to assume that this is about 2 or 3 of us praying about something. <br />Thanks again for your comments. They are very helpful. <br />D. Mark Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12016377712982292924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-32998473467478832422017-09-05T16:52:09.614-07:002017-09-05T16:52:09.614-07:00I wonder if the binding/loosing issue at least in ...I wonder if the binding/loosing issue at least in this passage has to do with binding or freeing a partner from a covenant? 1Cor 7:27 uses exactly those words in relation to marriage. The 'sin' then in this Gospel means a break in a covenant between two people - a very serious break = sin). The language is highly legal and court-procedural: charge, witnesses, decision. Even Jesus' Amen, legw humin sounds covenantal. In additional, there's no mention of repentance (only 'hear you', or not. Again, the sin here is different to moral transgressions. <br /><br />In 19, why does the asking need to be prayer? Two people ask the assembly for a decision and that will be ratified (or, as you say, has already been ratified) by heaven.v19 is a paraphrase or extension of v18, and even v20 is too. Whenever you meet to make decisions about any break of covenant (divorce as almost classically in 1 Cor 7)I will be in the midst of it (as all covenants were made with an oath calling on the Presence)<br /><br />Thanks for great posts. They are always a blessing.Rick Strelannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-61156223393322031222014-09-27T04:42:58.245-07:002014-09-27T04:42:58.245-07:00Wow, yes, I read it many years ago, but I only kno...Wow, yes, I read it many years ago, but I only know that because I read the whole book many years ago. I don't remember the exact essay on binding and loosing, but now I'll go back to it. Thanks for the tip. D. Mark Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12016377712982292924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8320313747187588188.post-26888049672859111422014-09-27T00:24:04.872-07:002014-09-27T00:24:04.872-07:00This is a great resource Mark. Thanks! I have been...This is a great resource Mark. Thanks! I have been influenced by this text ever since I read John Howard Yoders essay on binding and loosing in The Royal Priesthood. Do you know the essay?Bruce Hamillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17681070634717394661noreply@blogger.com